Vintage & Classic Car Club of Pakistan

[alvis]

The 108 posted by neurosurgeon is not a 6.3. It does not have the stainless steel trim around the front, rear and windshield areas. Most probably a 280 S.

The stacked headlights were not only in use for the US market. These first appeared on the W 111 220SE/300 SE models for use in Europe much earlier, and you could order the 6.3 with stacked lights for european use. The distinguishing factor between US spec and european spec stacked lights are the indicator lights.
On European versions the indicator lights are amber, on US they are clear and are housing the side light. The indicator is totally seperate on the US models.

[qasimshah]

@alvis;
great info on the stacked lamps issue......
@neurosurgeon:
sir can it be found out if the green 280S is for sale?
if so..how much..is it complete?..wheres the drivetrain..suspension etc...cos most of that seems missing here..other than that...the shell seems fyn in the piks....
i would be obliged if this is found out
@psyborg:
the red mustang hardtop in pindi is a 67, not a 68..it has a diesel and the owner dousnt want 2 sell...its becoming sad..about ten years ago...it was still pretty straight and just needed its original drivetrain..now its been misused and parts and trim have started to go missing.
i would kill for a 65 convertible resto project like Mohsin bhai's, if it has to hav a roof, only a fastback would do.
@all;
please keep giving info on muscle cars found ANYwhere..
regards

[mohsinikram]

@alvis
hmm....found out yesterday that it's a 280S and is owned by Omar Leghari.

[alvis]

Mohsin,

For your observations that Merc engines are not bulletproof, the point is that these engines need to be maintained AS PER the factory schedules. If you do that they are not bulletproof they are Bomb proof!!

Just look at the mileage on the speedo!!

[alvis]

All,

The Chevrolet Corvette is NOT a muscle car.
Since it's birth ( long before the era of the 'musclecar" ) it has been "America's only Sports car".
These days with its latest variants it is rightly called and accepted as a "Supercar"

[sami_voodoo]

alvis

It's cars like the Corvette that bend the musclecar rules and make people like me confused about it's proper definition.

Another tongue-in-cheek definition of a "Musclecar" could be; A car that does the Quarter mile in 13 or less seconds, has at least a 350 c.i. engine, weighs at least 2 tonnes, doesn't go around corners very well, and is shaped like a brick.

The Corvette isn't styled like a brick, goes around corners very well and is relatively light, so it isn't a muscle-car right?

[jz]

@ drnagi68
v got this done in my friend's workshop,this is the 3rd merc tat got restored,last 2 were a v quick sell,they got booked when they were in a process of resotration,his mechanics r really good n his father is an automobile engineer i think.the workshop on DHA main bulvd opposite 2 adil hop,@ the back of the resturant.v have some minor work left on the car

@ mohsinikram
the bumper was like this when v bought it,c didnt add anything extra 2 the body.
the mini is in a mint condition,wud b an easy restore i guess,i have a friend who owns a mini of the same model.he's also gettin a japanes suzuki g13bb engine in it.

[alvis]

Sami et all

I think Mohsin has pointed us all in the right direction with the wikipedia description of 'musclecar". Your observation is very nearly there. I have yet to hear of a two seater musclecar, so four seater would be another point to remember.

Another car which is not a muscle car are the two variants of the AC Cobra, these are pure sportscars in my list.

What is the 300SEL 6.3 ?? It could very nearly blow the doors off a Mopar Hemi, but is it a musclecar??

[mohsinikram]

@alvis
you are right about Muscle Cars being 4 seaters rather than 2 seaters. I had thought of AC Cobra only because of it's sheer muscle though it's not a 'muscle car'.

[sami_voodoo]

alvis

Not that Mopar aficionados would like it (nor maybe Mercedes fans) but IMO, the 300SEL should be classified as a Musclecar. It's got four seats. It's primarily a saloon, which almost all other muscle cars were. And it's got a stonking big V8, another "unofficial" prerequisite for a muscle car. I've never seen a V6, V10 or V12 muscle car - the Viper, like the Corvette, is a sports car. The AMG C32 was considered by some to be one, but it lacks the V8.

Maybe for European cars we can use the term "supersaloon"? Supersaloons and Muscle cars are essentially the same. It's just the Geographical differences that change the term. Witness the XJR, E63, RS6 etc.

Still, I think it's a grey area. I suppose it's a matter of personal taste as well...

[alvis]

Sami,

The 6.3 was so discreet ( externally, not aurally ) in its awesome performance that it was the ultimate Q car, maybe if it had a slightly more aggressive stance than its other stablemates, then it would have been the greatest musclecar - ever.

[qasimshah]

@alvis, sami, et al.
muscle cars are primarily american OR aussie(ford, holden etc.) or south african(mostly from the same marques)
wats the big deal ppl?..agreed they are 4seat cars....and i wud agree with alvis about the corvette. y are we getting exited?
@mohsin sb....i also agree with MB engines being bomb proof..IF.. serviced regularly LIKE a toyota or for that matter ANY other engine
can sum1 please find out if omar leghari wants to sell the 280s?..if so ..4 how much?

[AsadIshaque]

@all

Sorry I have been away, mostly lurking due to a troublesome cablenet connection. Hope it behaves now.

I have seen two VW beetles for sale. Both are in about the same condition and would make ideal restoration projects. May even be driven as daily butthaulers with a bit of mechanical freshening up.

Please let me know if anyone is interested. Details then. One is a 68 and the other a 69.

@mohsinikram

I woud probably drop in your place on sunday morning. I will call first to make sure you are free and available.

Yesterday I was too tired after a really dreadful time at work. Had worked for nine hours straight.

Someone told me of a Morris Oxford which may be for sale. I went to the place where the car was supposed to be for the past sometime but was disappointed to see it missing. Im not sure if Im chasing a shadow but would post here immediately if I get any leads on this.

Yesterday (havent I had an interesting day??) I went to see a VW microbus. Before anyone gets really excited, it was a post 68 'baywindow' model. The owner was eccentric and I was unable to view the vehicle as he was taking a bath!! The servant didnt even allow me to wait!

The only thing I know is it has a Diesel engine slapped on. But I did manage to peak thru the gate and the glimpse told me it was something really interesting. And there was no radiator hanging at the back, so I suspect it to be a clean and more importantly reversible conversion.

Id update on this front too is I have more info.

Im glad there are people coming to rescue of the MB marque!! We hope to make you a disciple too!

Best regards.

[romano]

@Asad, leave the Morris Oxford alone. It was a non entity from day one, and apart from its Italian styling, there wasnt much of note to the package. An Aunty car if there ever was one!
@Alvis/Sami, whats yr take on the Iso Grifo? Musclecar? Yes or no? It had 4 seats, big block V8, was heavy enough....so whats the verdict?

[sami_voodoo]

Romano

Depends on who you ask... Having an American V8 complicates matters even more. An Italian Musclecar? Never heard of it! If it goes around corners, it isn't one

Qasimshah

Well, were trying to determine how can we classify big engined European saloons. Some say supersaloons, some say musclecars. I have to say though, from an American standpoint, these cars should be considered as musclecars.

Alvis

Weren't most musclecars rather discreet? Except for a few with humongous wings and hood scoops, most were virtually indistinguishable (save some badges) from their more pedestrian brethren.

Just for the record, I'd love to have a Chevy II Nova '68. I saw one about ten years ago parked behind Baiga Bakers (F10 Markaz). It was dark green if I remember correctly.

[mohsinikram]

@alvis & other MB lovers
Before i say something about MB engine let me assure you that I have a lot of respect for the marque and do not mean to rub you guys the wrong way.....I do have my reservations about its reputation vs reality and would love to have a friendly exchange of view.... here's some facts on a 1933 Citroen (not the TA)
(By the end of 1932, the types "8", "10", and "15" followed, called "Rosalie" after a Citroën "Rosalie 8" which covered 300,000 km in 134 days with an average of more than 93 km/h and breaking not less that 106 world records! More runs of the same kind followed and proved the reliability of the small Citroën.

[romano]

@Sami, methinks you hanker after a Yenko Nova....
and from what I've read on the Grifo, its steering was heavy and awful, so fits the musclecar criteria there too

[sami_voodoo]

Romano

Methinks you hit the nail on the head. A Nice dark green or black Yenko 427 Nova would fit the bill nicely. Minus the garish stripes of course. They only attract crooks.

P.S. Methinks I'll have to sell my soul to the devil to procure one... A modern day restomod perhaps? With an LS7 crate motor (the '70s Big Block)?

[neurosurgeon]

safeershah... sorry been busy... sometimes the nature of teh job...

Pics soon... before the weekend.Omar Mian and Leghari are not the same.

The 280S is not for sale. I would advise not to buy... been almost totalled once before.

Rest later

[psyb0rg]

European muscle car?? Look no further: