Vintage & Classic Car Club of Pakistan

[AsadIshaque]

@mohsinikram

I would really appreciate if you could please find the primer brand name for me. It looks quite good in the pics.

@ optimus

Nice spotting! Love the Phoenix but dont have the courage to put my hands into these hulks!  Personally I like the smaller Brit and German classics better.

 We had a discussion regarding the definition of a classic here sometime back. While I dont completely agree with it, I must say everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion.

Beauty lies ONLY in the eye of the beholder!

Regards to all.

[mohsinikram]

@asadishaque
Rafi has actually left for States. I had recommended him to buy a brand that I use i.e. 'Dyna' a dutch product. He bought something else which was made in Singapore ... I can't recall the name.

[mohsinikram]

@ALL

some of our friends are 'missing in action' on this thread...we want you back guys! alvis, kahmed, sami_voodoo, symbiote, mjabbasi, kc, etc., etc.

VCCCP annual car show was scheduled to be held in February. In view of the prevailing situation in the country we have decided to postpone it till mid March. We had 85 classic cars in our show last year. Those who haven't been on our website, please visit www.vcccp.com

[mohsinikram]

@ ALL
check out this link
http://www.dsinasia.com/index.html

Check out the Citroen cars in Pakistan and India

[AsadIshaque]

@ mohsinikram

Thank you very much for the dyna lead. Think it would be available probably with the Akzo Nobel (Seikens) dealers. Would check it out.

Actually I needed some nice primer to put on the bug WHILE it is being restored. It would be a temporary way to prevent areas from catching rust being dented. Have bought some red oxide primer of good qulaity for this. 

Hope all the 'comrades' who are hidding rather than missing in action are back soon!!

Saw the Citroen DS site and I cannot believe that only ONE is surviving in Pakistan, that too in a yard!! 

DS cars were quite often seen around a decade or two ago. But then a decade is a long time. It is of a spaceship design and all the things were much much ahead of time then and maybe even now.

One was scrapped at Shershah a few years ago. I did not get to see the car otherwise would have made an effort to save it. Saw many parts which came off it. Had eyed the out-of-this-world speedometer pod with an intention to buy it as soon as I had spare cash. 

 That did not happen and the parts disappeared one day.

 While on this subject, I must ask all civic and modern car lovers to see the Citroen DS cabin and dash for once. They would note what inspired the Honda designers.

Best regards to all.

[mohsinikram]

@asadishaque
The Citroens have always been many years ahead in their design and technology. Talking of DS's, it has the following interesting features: swiveling headlights i.e. one beam on each side turns with the steering, ride height is adjustable to suit the conditions, no matter how much weight you put in a DS, it retains it's specified ride height, the speedometer also tells you the stopping distance, no need to use a jack to change a puncutured tire, single spoke steering, button brakes etc. etc. The seats in a DS are so comfortable that once a leading auto mag wrote in their review that it seems that Citroen is the only company which does R & D of seats. There were a few in Karachi. I know of 3 atleast. I had driven one a few times and I almost bought another one for Rs.10,000/- in 1984. The car was in immaculate condition except for failed suspension spheres. They don't call it a godess for nothing.

[iiqbal]

I daily see this car, thought to share with u

[iiqbal]

[iiqbal]

[mohsinikram]

@iiqbal
looks like a very well kept car

[OptimusSS]

@mohsinikram

did not know much about Citroens but good to know more sir.
im surprised to see that there only one Citroens in the whole of pakistan. i guess than its high time someone saved the piece of history before its lost forever.

[sami_voodoo]

@asadishaque & mohsinikram

The Citroen DS was a very very innovative car for it's time (I'd argue even today) where else do you find self leveling 4 wheel suspension, class leading aerodynamics, a cockpit that came straight out of the Jetsons, steering guided headlamps etc.? The brake "pedal" was called the "champignon" or "mushroom". Although it looked cool, it was apparently rather difficult to modulate, the main problem being lack of feel through a very small movement.

Last summer, my colleagues and I cleaned out our workshops of old parts and junk. This thread didn't exist then, otherwise I would have taken a huge bunch of photos of the junk we threw out. Examples of some more "exotic" bits were;

The aforementioned Citroen DS suspension globes. You do not find new sets, you rebuild the old ones. These ones were absolutely gone.

2CV cylinder heads, race cams, high compression pistons, Weber carbs, light flywheels etc.

A bunch of gutted and dirty old Weber, Solex and Dell'orto carbs. A couple were in working order and are still in the shop for students to see.

3 or 4 Turbochargers

A huge bunch of Renault PRV cylinders, pistons, rods (lots of which were bent) and valves. Plus 3 or 4 engine blocks and a selection of heads, all damaged.

Seized Porsche 911 shortblock (no idea of displacement)

Old starter motors (burnt) and wiper motors (not burnt, I took 'em - 4)

Brake pads, discs, drums, clutches, flywheels. (all assorted)

A bunch of assorted race exhaust systems. Custom headers etc.

In addition to these, a lot of things that were too many to list.

Other than that, we still have a bunch of interesting engines on display;

A Renault PRV

A Renault V6 Twin-turbo Formula 1 engine (a beauty)

One of the very limited production Direct Injection petrol engines by Renault.

A bunch of Renault Diesels, K9K 1.5 dCi, F9Q 1.9 d, etc.

Peugeot TU, XU etc.

Peugeot DW10, DV4, DV6 Common Rail Diesels.

Porsche Carrera flat 6 (I think 2.4 litre)

Volkswagen flat 4 1.3 litre

Citroen 2CV Boxer of 602 cc

A Turboméca Turboshaft engine from an Alouette helicopter.

Phew! A very incomplete list of what we have lying all over the place. It's a nice place to work for a petrol (or diesel) head like me.

Cheers!
Sami

[psyb0rg]

And you threw away this stuff?

[mohsinikram]

since Citroen DS is the subject at the moment, following pics will show what a great car it was and how sad that we don't have one in Pakistan which is still in service. DS overall superiority over lesser mortals is quite evident in the following pictures (barring Jaguar in my opinion)

[mohsinikram]

NOW OTHER POPULAR CARS FROM THE SAME ERA AS THE CITROEN DS ABOVE.......MIND U - THE DS WAS NO FAILURE AS MOST PPL THINK HERE IN PAKISTAN. OVER 1.5 MILLION WERE MADE.

[mohsinikram]

@SAMI_VOODOO
good to hear from u. The only thing not so great in the DS was the engine, which was carried forward from the Traction Avant. DS is mouth watering stuff and I want one now - BAD!

[sami_voodoo]

@psyborg

Unfortunately we were really really short of space. None of us wanted to throw even one nut away, but the workshop was just overflowing with stuff. Even now, we've got 50 odd engines in various states. About half of them are used as spares donors for the engines on the dynos.

I actually made a point of recovering as much of the hard-to-find hardware as I could. Got about 30 kgs worth of assorted fasteners.

@mohsinikram

Good to be back sir! I've been moving a bit over the winter vacations, but now I'm back. So you'll see a bit more of me on these hallowed pages!

A general question for everyone! Has anyone ever driven, sat in, or seen a Lotus Cortina in the flesh? The Cortina that Mohsin Sb. has shown in the pics reminded me of it.

As for the Jag (MkII?) vs. DS debate, there are more than a few passing historical similarities.

1. Both were the top in technological know-how of their respective companies.

2. Used by important people in their time - DS by De Gaulle, and the Jag by robbers (same thing really)

3. Both were capable of fairly high speeds and had quite brisk acceleration.

4. In the day, both were cars to be seen in on either side of the Channel. A top choice of tasteful celebrities.

I'd personally have the DS because of its cushy ride and exclusivity (not that the Jag is a dime a dozen either). Although I think that if the suspension was ever to go to pot, I'll have a (very young) heart attack!

[Cateyez]

Dear All,

I remember seeing a green colored, soft top Citroen DS parked in a parking lot in Super Market Islamabad in early 80's. Infact i used to stop by it every evening while I compared it to my Citroen DS Dinky car made by Majorette of France. Lovely Car indeed. Maybe Romano must be having some idea about it.

[romano]

@Cateyez,are u sure it was a DS???? Those are super super rare, so I guess you saw a 2CV, which are ALL ragtops.
@Mohsin, you are right about the engine, the DS' one true failing; why Citroen never put the Maserati engine into it instead of making a commercial flop of an SM we will never know...
The only DS I ever saw in this country was with Nawab Nasir of Dir. Light blue, tho I suspect the red one is the same car repainted? Someone out there have any info on this?

[mohsinikram]

@cateyez
you alost gave me a heartattack. A Citroen DS Decapotable is something to die for. If my info is correct, only 50 odd were made and are worth a fortune. Locate that CARRRRR!!

@romano
if I remember correctly, the Mesarati takeover by Citroen was in the early 70's i.e. nearing the end of DS production. A flat 4 0r 6 aircooled engine was designed for the ID / DS but was dropped to save costs. The red DS in Islamabad belongs to Tauqir Awan or Hajveri Airlines fame. Seems to be a very decent guy, nice to talk to. Somebody needs to push him to make this car. I am going to call him now. I have almost traced another one in Karachi locked up in some factory. Will try and see it one of these days.

@sami_voodoo
I agree with you on DS Vs Jag Mk II. I would love to have both.