Which high end components?

[stj174]

madhouse and mohsin129: Thank for your lovely comments Brothers i appreciate

Well i agree with you both and what you have written is absolutely right

After meeting mani1, what i think, he wants a nice sounding setup, for his family car, which sound good and what he wants is to install the setup for once and get done with it.

He does not want to rip the car apart and rip out the stuff over and over. Thats why he is opting for some very nice comps. He do not want to go wrong with his 1st go and waste the money over n over. Thats what i think, i might have misjudged him.

[Lafafa]

wow...a very interesting debate. I have clearly missed out on alot...have been freaking busy in work this entire week...Shajeel for one knows that

i will just give my two cents:

-highend headunits/processor etc have so many tuning options so you can make the setup sound flat. yes, they are there to help you make it sound FLAT. i am specifically talking about SQ setups. every car will have different acoustics and will affect the sound and frequency spectrum in a different manner. hence you use all those 7, 16 or 31 band equalizers to help you achieve a flat sound (take STJ's example, his setup is quite flat - i presume his AUTO EQ did that for him??)

-having said that, you definitely do not need highend headunits to make an SQ setup. like stj mentioned, we are not competeing in some SQ competition

-i wholeheartedly agree with shajeel's comment regarding the importance of the installation process. couldnt agree on this more. its probably the single most important aspect. i have yet to hear STJ's setup, but 3days back i got a chance to meet shajeel (a very nice fellow :)) and listened to his SQ/SQL setup. was tuned for SQ when we met..and it was amazing...and he has put more effort in the install than anything else

-you cannot negate the importance of highend comps. i cannot for the life of me imagine a $200-$500 comps set to sound similar (let alone better) to a $900-$1200 comps

[mani1]

@stj174

sir you are spot on about the setup I want

@all

But the question still remains here that what constitutes a good or perfect install

1)Tweeters are responsible for reproduction of highs. Their placement matters for soundstage. Now soundstage creation is a subjective domain and depends on the car acoustics as well as personal preference. So does this means that the definition of perfect install would be different for everyone?

2)The Mids: Since they are installed in the door, alot depends the door and midbass will definitely sound different in different cars (hence different doors). The only thing you can do to improve midbass response is deaden the doors, hence improving midbass response. There is nothing else you can do i.e. you can not change the placement of midbass and so is deadening the only thing which will make an install perfect when it comes to mids?

[madhouse12]

@stj174

sir you are spot on about the setup I want

@all

But the question still remains here that what constitutes a good or perfect install

1)Tweeters are responsible for reproduction of highs. Their placement matters for soundstage. Now soundstage creation is a subjective domain and depends on the car acoustics as well as personal preference. So does this means that the definition of perfect install would be different for everyone?

there is no ONE perfect install for this. there are however guidelines and some standards. for example the sound stage should be in front. it should be wide and should play as if the singer is right in front of you. to achieve this, different installers go their different routes. some install tweeters in A-Pillars and some on the dashboard somewhere. some use kick panels for the mids and some use the doors. its the overall effect that counts. all about finding the "sweet spot" of your car.
SQ is all about playing the music as it was recorded, without any enhancements added to it. but this criteria is a competition criteria. in a car's daily driving environment we have to adjust the sound accordingly. while driving, road noise adds gain to higher frequencies so the treble sounds a bit higher. also it kills some of the low tunes and you can not get that level of definition while driving. and lets face it, we shouldnt be paying that much attention to the music while we are driving and we usually dont. so for daily listening you will have to adjust the system to it plays other than flat. and this then becomes a matter of your choice as you define what you listen to in a song.

2)The Mids: Since they are installed in the door, alot depends the door and midbass will definitely sound different in different cars (hence different doors). The only thing you can do to improve midbass response is deaden the doors, hence improving midbass response. There is nothing else you can do i.e. you can not change the placement of midbass and so is deadening the only thing which will make an install perfect when it comes to mids?

deadening is one of the most important thing in a SQ install. but dont forget that there are other places you can install the midbass in like kick panels and dashboard in some cars.

acoustically all cars will sound different. what an SQ installer tries to achieve is to get the best and most flat sound out his system and to do that he has to take various routes.

i would suggest you get audiophile test discs from chesky records and sheffield records and listen to em. chesky i think has a whole tutorial regarding what to listen to in an SQ install. the cd tests all aspects of a SQ system like definition, depth, resolution etc. must have cd if you want to know what real SQ is. Do a search on torrents and you will find FLAC or monkey audio format for these files. if u cant find it, i think i have the torrent file at home.

[mani1]

@madhouse12

Thanks for the information! Yes I will definitely download some the test discs you mentioned. 4 days to go for the system!

@959

I posted a thread at DIYMA regarding our debate (link: Alpine 9887 V/s Pioneer 4100DVD - SQ - DIYMA.com)

The response I got from TREETOP there

I've had a couple 9887s and a P99RS, and I'm now using an AVH-P4100DVD since it has a digital output to run into a Bitone.

These are all different units with different strengths and weaknesses, it's really going to depend on your intended uses and what your personal preferences are.
If you're using passive crossovers on your components, you won't really be taking advantage of the strengths of the 9887 or the P99RS, since they're active-capable units. You could still do limited time alignment with either of them which could be a benefit, but if you're running passive the 4100 would allow you to run your setup just fine. If you're looking for DVD playing capability and a screen, then that should make your decision easier. "

This guy is a regular over there with over 3000 posts and unlike all of us over here he has used 9887 and P99RS and currently using 4100DVD with Audison Bitone. Looking at his setup, would you agree he knows what he is saying?

[stj174]

ahan nice 4 more days to go..!!!

Chalain atleast confusion khatam hui.

[959]

@959

I posted a thread at DIYMA regarding our debate (link: Alpine 9887 V/s Pioneer 4100DVD - SQ - DIYMA.com)

The response I got from TREETOP there

Quote:I've had a couple 9887s and a P99RS, and I'm now using an AVH-P4100DVD since it has a digital output to run into a Bitone.

These are all different units with different strengths and weaknesses, it's really going to depend on your intended uses and what your personal preferences are.
If you're using passive crossovers on your components, you won't really be taking advantage of the strengths of the 9887 or the P99RS, since they're active-capable units. You could still do limited time alignment with either of them which could be a benefit, but if you're running passive the 4100 would allow you to run your setup just fine. If you're looking for DVD playing capability and a screen, then that should make your decision easier. "

This guy is a regular over there with over 3000 posts and unlike all of us over here he has used 9887 and P99RS and currently using 4100DVD with Audison Bitone. Looking at his setup, would you agree he knows what he is saying?

Sir with all due respect I do not agree.

Not even a 3,000$ component can compete with a good sound stage and acoustics or a reference grade HU with a DSP, provided you know a thing or two about how to handle or experiment with it.

No one can park his/her Audi A8 W12 with a Bang & Olfusen 17 speaker or a Mercedes S600 with Harmon Kardon Logic 7 5.1 with 14 speakers or install a Focal Utopia and win a SQ competition, if you want to sound high end you have to work hard, if you want to sound good you can do that by installing high end components, just do not make it too early and too expensive.

Off course, that will not apply to you if you will use a sound processor in future but until then your setup will sound inferior.

I have not used a P99RS or an Audison but I have used the Alpine with IMPRINT, Pioneer P90 Combo, JBL MS8 and Clarion HX D2 and have also listened to a limited edition Japan only RS D7RII coupled with RS P90 and stage 4 C series components in a competition and they all worth more $ to $ then any high end component including the best designer Hertz components money can buy.

I have lost 500$ to a sound installer who claimed that he will make the CDA9887 with IMPRINT + SPR17S sound better then my Type X PRO and CDA9855 in a bread and butter 1992 Civic DX and he did that, we are not PRO installers so you can go spend your money with either way you like.

On a positive note you can sell your HU much quicker at a much better value then your Morel 6, if you can prove that sound stage can be created by expensive speakers.

All theses things are just an afterthought since you have already planned and purchased your audio equipment, now try to capitalize on that.

Regards

[stj174]

1 more day mani?

[mani1]

@stj174

Although I would love to but I have an exam to prepare

@959

Sir ONLY FOR YOU I am getting Alpine Type R components. They are arriving on Monday InshAllah. I really need to beat those Focal KRX2s and I am counting on you

[Lafafa]

@stj174

Although I would love to but I have an exam to prepare

@959

Sir ONLY FOR YOU I am getting Alpine Type R components. They are arriving on Monday InshAllah. I really need to beat those Focal KRX2s and I am counting on you

waisae i think he meant you can beat highend components with type R comps if you do the following:

-pair it with a highend headunit like 9887/p99rs etc
-do the install like a pro
-have an acoustically friendly cabin environment

otherwise there is no way in hell that a type r can beat focals or any other gud comps

[kzaki]

"Which high end components? <hr style="color: rgb(199, 226, 240); background-color: rgb(199, 226, 240);" size="1"> Guys which of these is the best component system. Budget is around PKR 40,000. The setup is for a civic so please keep the mounting issues etc in mind. There would be no subwoofer in this setup (so good bass response from comps is essential) and coaxials along with front components would be used only. Dynamat Extreme dampening on all doors. HU is a Pioneer 4250DVD

1)CS 265 X-Plain Pro - Rainbow 6.5" Component System

2)Iridium 6.2 - DLS 6.5" 2-Way Component System

3)165KR2 - Focal 6.5" 2-Way Component System with TNK Tweeter (Although international price is higher, they are available locally for around 37,000)

Which ones do you suggest?"

Wow what a lovely thread it is ... Mani, i must recommend you to get FOCAL component, i have found them the best all rounder hiend component. Other hiend brands like Hertz, DLS, Rainbow, Iradium and Polk SR are quite laid back however focal is the only one which rocks on all type of music frm pop to rnb from classical to bangra you can also use focal for SPL and for ultimate SQ setup.... Apart from that build quality of KRX or KRX2 is stunning and yes the response of midbass is amazing too.

Do not spend money on Hi-end Pre it doesnt make difference apart from millions of setting which is not useful, since i have P88RS and i ahve compared it with other models of Pioneer with 4v output and they sound the same. Yes if you want to compete in competition then you need one otherwise no need to spend money on it...

Spend most of your budget on speakers, never compromise on speaker since they are the solely responsible for output.

After your speakers, set budget for good hi-end amp and for that you need to get good quality amp of MAC,Sinfoni,luxman, Nak, PG, Zapco, TRU, etc

Now sub is waiting for its turn. Yes after these two you can get good quality sub provided if you feel the requirement of it or not.

Do not waste money on rear fill, stage always appear on front not on rear.

Now the last one is pre and good quality of copper wires with the right guage.

yes, Fitting is important and with proper deadening makes a difference in sound.

You can also ask STJ about it and he is one the most experienced in audio both( SPL and now in SQ) setup...

[mani1]

@Lafafa

I was just messing around with 959

@kzaki

Thanks for your valuable input. Unfortunately due to budget issues, I will not be going another high end component any time soon

Would appreciate your comments on my other setup here https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/car-entertainment-electronics-gps-navigation/144473-my-sq-audio-setup-currently-progress-5#post2425212

[stj174]

"Which high end components?
Wow what a lovely thread it is ... Mani, i must recommend you to get FOCAL component, i have found them the best all rounder hiend component. Other hiend brands like Hertz, DLS, Rainbow, Iradium and Polk SR are quite laid back however focal is the only one which rocks on all type of music frm pop to rnb from classical to bangra you can also use focal for SPL and for ultimate SQ setup.... Apart from that build quality of KRX or KRX2 is stunning and yes the response of midbass is amazing too.

Do not spend money on Hi-end Pre it doesnt make difference apart from millions of setting which is not useful, since i have P88RS and i ahve compared it with other models of Pioneer with 4v output and they sound the same. Yes if you want to compete in competition then you need one otherwise no need to spend money on it...

Spend most of your budget on speakers, never compromise on speaker since they are the solely responsible for output.

After your speakers, set budget for good hi-end amp and for that you need to get good quality amp of MAC,Sinfoni,luxman, Nak, PG, Zapco, TRU, etc

Now sub is waiting for its turn. Yes after these two you can get good quality sub provided if you feel the requirement of it or not.

Do not waste money on rear fill, stage always appear on front not on rear.

Now the last one is pre and good quality of copper wires with the right guage.

yes, Fitting is important and with proper deadening makes a difference in sound.

Excellently put.. +1000 to that..!!

Installing a Supra engine in a Mehran will make it faster, but it can never out perform the real thing...!!! or will it ?

Its not just the engine which makes a good car, there are other variables involved too; built quality, chassis, suspension, aerodynamics, RnD involved, the quality of the parts used etc etc.

You can also ask STJ about it and he is one the most experienced in audio both( SPL and now in SQ) setup...

ahem ahem.... thanx Sir jee

[Lafafa]

very well said Kzaki.

sir i remember once you were debating about which components to get after you got the P88RS. so which ones did you eventually get??

[959]

@959

Sir ONLY FOR YOU I am getting Alpine Type R components. They are arriving on Monday InshAllah. I really need to beat those Focal KRX2s and I am counting on you

Sir I am available for anything that I can do for whatever setup you like.

[kzaki]

lol... right so one should get supra first instead of buying surpa engine and put it in mehran lol

[kzaki]

@Lafafa
Sir no components bought so far, again looking forward to get something from abroad just waiting for Christmas offers...My next target is Hi-end comp (top end) and after that top end Amp... now it could be new if i get a good deal or slightly used from aborad.

@Mani
mani kiya ho gaya hai app ko ??? type r se you are gonna beat KRX2 LOL i like your confidence
Type R actually not even closer to focal access instead of Typre R get polk momo comps... tweet of Type R is bright yes it can surely beat focal KRX2 in chaaan chaan and dhum dhum with boom and alot of ear fatigue LOL

just kidding they are gud in their category but compare them with pioneer d series, kappa, and momo... amd pick the best one u like.

[Lafafa]

mehran waloun ka bhi dil hai...atleast supra ka engine tou afford ho jae ga lol

[mani1]

@Mani
mani kiya ho gaya hai app ko ??? type r se you are gonna beat KRX2 LOL i like your confidence
Type R actually not even closer to focal access instead of Typre R get polk momo comps... tweet of Type R is bright yes it can surely beat focal KRX2 in chaaan chaan and dhum dhum with boom and alot of ear fatigue LOL

just kidding they are gud in their category but compare them with pioneer d series, kappa, and momo... amd pick the best one u like.

Sir are you sure you wanted to address me instead of 959?

Atleast sir dont insult my long posts made in this thread

[stj174]

mehran waloun ka bhi dil hai...atleast supra ka engine tou afford ho jae ga lol

By Mehran i meant Type R lol

Kzaki:

Sir absolutely right..... Tell me about Christmas offers

Focal access are far better than Type R, kappa, pioneer d series, fusion sushion, MM and a few JBLs.

as per reviews and also with hands on experience.

About Alpine Type R comps vs Focal Aceess comps (sorry comparing them both with the KRX2 wud be utter stupidity, therefore i didnt write typer vs krx2) If someone here wants the hands on reviews of both.. do let me know.

Yes the processor or a high end HU does help, but "processor + kenwood 702 comps" can never beat "processor + type r" and hence "processor + type r" can never beat "processor + any hi end comps".

So when comparing speakers, rest of the equipment should be same. we are comparing speakers and comps here not processors, head units or multichannel amps (as per the topic)

Regards.