Toyota Corolla Altis X is a SCAM (in my opinion)

Toyota

Xulfiqar (Xulfiqar) 2021-01-23 00:24:38 +0500 #82

You just categorically claimed that a brand new corolla can be bought for 4 mil straight from Japan.

Why back off now?

Xulfiqar (Xulfiqar) 2021-01-23 00:27:12 +0500 #83

Lol!!

No one is smuggling food into india or afghanistan or iran from Pakistan.

The stuff I mentioned are actually quite low priced compared to pk, been there seen that.

Never heard of an idiot smuggler who smuggles stuff that costs more than retail selling price.

ehalin (ehalin) 2021-01-23 00:29:27 +0500 #84

Yes I really don't know the price of car coming out of Nagoya plant. But I know the prices of these cars globally. Probably they sell them on discount.

waleed80 (Waleed Akhtar) 2021-01-23 00:29:41 +0500 #85

Please stop fighting like kids. Everyone

ehalin (ehalin) 2021-01-23 00:30:30 +0500 #86

Thansk. I am out.

Irrelevant people taking things to irrelevant discussion.

Hassan1991 (Electrical Engineer ) 2021-01-23 01:44:41 +0500 #87

Why don't you go out and ask government to change there policy of "300%" duty rather then fighting here?
You are not getting it. That duty effects manufacturer too. They can't sell a car cheaper then what it's costing them. They have to keep a calculated profit to give salaries to there employees. This is not a government office kind of stuff. Where they get payed even by sleeping on there office seat.
Don't compare other countries market with ours they don't have there currency dragging on ground.

ali454 (Ancient Pakwheeler) 2021-01-23 01:47:54 +0500 #88

The colonizers brain washed us.
Everything foreign is Gold to us.

haseeb.basharat 2021-01-23 03:02:39 +0500 #89

Around 5 million for 12th gen 1.5 hybrid corolla from Japan.
I guess 1.8 hybrid would be around 6.0 mils.
Toyota IMC is coming up with corolla cross cbu unit and that will be priced above 7.0million mark.

Just to give you an idea, look at the asking price of this hatchy https://www.pakwheels.com/used-cars/toyota-corolla-2017-for-sale-in-lahore-4229285

Xulfiqar (Xulfiqar) 2021-01-23 06:40:04 +0500 #90

So you basically are not informed yet want to debate,

i see (scratches chin)

Times havent changed much in Pakistan have they!

ehalin (ehalin) 2021-01-23 07:37:49 +0500 #91

Sir, It is difficult to maintain a sensible discussion with you. Since you use degrading language and you think you are the only learned person. And you state wrong facts.

Please explain if these local assemblers produce cars which are so cheap and full of quality then why don't they export them and sell in international market?

If they sell these "GEMS" in international market and export from Pakistan, it will not only earn foreign exchange for our country but also solve many other problems like "economy of scales", "micro market", fluctuation in local market demand, lay offs of the work force etc.

If you want to listen, I can explain to you why these "gems" are not able to export from Pakistan.

ehalin (ehalin) 2021-01-23 07:43:08 +0500 #92

The duty for CKD/SKD kits is different. The duty structure in fact give these assemblers undue advantage.

waqar747 (waqar747) 2021-01-23 07:46:20 +0500 #93

Sir out of genuine curiosity and with an absolute intention of not spicing things up, can someone share the profit after tax data of IMC or HACL for the last 3-5 years. Just wanted to see how pressed they are to increase prices to save the company, and unable to invest in new models and platforms.
Of course it is a free country and they have a right to their margins but maybe we will get an insight on the intent towards consumer benefit. BTW no sarcasm intended and I don’t have knowledge or access to this data and I genuinely want to know what financial scenario troubles them to run like they do.

waqar747 (waqar747) 2021-01-23 07:51:16 +0500 #94

Sorry, a quick search got to this: https://www.toyota-indus.com/imc-declares-profit-after-tax-of-pkr-5-1-billion-for-fy2019-20/
So the last two years don’t seem as cosy for a company this size. 5.1 billion profit for last fiscal. Not even close to the figure which would allow them to invest in the TNGA platform plant/ tooling, etc. I’m not in finance so my reading may be off by a mile though.

ehalin (ehalin) 2021-01-23 07:52:01 +0500 #95

And also an investigation into alleged over-invoicing of CKD/SKD kits.

ehalin (ehalin) 2021-01-23 07:54:37 +0500 #96

The answer is in two arguments: 1. alleged involvement of assemblers in "OWN" money/black market trade, 2. Over-invoicing.

If these people are in such a loss in doing this business, then they should invest somewhere else.

waqar747 (waqar747) 2021-01-23 07:58:46 +0500 #97

Over-invoicing is new to me, I’ve heard of under-invoicing to save on import duties. Can you explain this please, how would it benefit them.

Honda Atlas seems to be in deeper trouble according to this: https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/PK/HCAR/financials/annual/income-statement

ehalin (ehalin) 2021-01-23 08:10:27 +0500 #98

Please read report of the commission formed to investigate the issues of power sector and IPP's. Their they have highlighted the problem of "over-invoicing." Some people suspect a similar mechanism being utilized here too to maximize/hide the profits.

Whenever, you give undue (and unnatural) protection to any sector these irregularities are bound to happen.

The protection to automobile industry was for the purposes of 1. saving/earning in foreign exchange, 2. Creation of jobs, 3. cheap, safe, economical and quality transport for the masses. After seventy years not even a single objective achieved. And the proof is in the fact, that if today these protections are withdrawn, this so called industry will not survive a single day.

One thing which is un-explainable is the fact that only this sector is being protected so much. There are other sectors of the economy which have many times bigger contributions but they don't enjoy such protections.

ehalin (ehalin) 2021-01-23 08:18:22 +0500 #99

And even, for arguments sake, we assume that there have been no irregularities or no malpractices and we know that our economy is so small that we can't support this industry due to our market being a "micro market" then we should learn our lesson by now and it is the right time that we start exploring other avenues. There are lot of other options where if provided with a fraction of the protection that is being provided to these assemblers, many times better results can be obtained.

There are many developed countries which have understood this better than us. There is no major manufacturer of cars from UK but its economy is one of the largest in the world. Going forward as the technology is evolving, the number of vehicle manufacturers will decrease. This industry is bound to be so sophisticated and technology intensive that for smaller manufacturers it will not be possible to sustain independently. And we are seeing the shift globally where big car manufacturers are now going for acquisitions and mergers.

And another interesting fact is that due to popularity of EV's everywhere prices of IC engine vehicles are dropping since there is lot of unutilized capacity available globally but in our country we are still seeing shortages and price hikes.

Xulfiqar (Xulfiqar) 2021-01-23 10:28:51 +0500 #100

You are also onboard the same ship whose passengers think own money is pocketed by assemblers?

Xulfiqar (Xulfiqar) 2021-01-23 10:48:08 +0500 #101

So in short

All these should pack up and get out? You remind me of arab people running any business

we cannot do/make it - but we can buy it. So why should we do/make it!